Irrelevant
- Zombie

Lolol...weren't you the one talking about how you like logic...to say that smyth's open call to want to come back and not willing to take a fair deal (let alone a discount) compared to Sutton whi just signed a 1 year deal and got extended by the team as irrelevant is just illogical.

Missed where Sutton begged for Edm to get him away from the Kings and bring him home to retire...long term loss of short term memory I guess...
- OilHorse

You just said that Edmonton went above and beyond and righted that wrong. If there was a wrong, and Edmonton righted it, than it doesn't seem like anyone 'owes' anything. Maybe Smyth feels the same way.

I dont know why it matters to anybody what teams I like.

No, you don't give him whatever he wants, but I think them seemingly arguing over 500k is a bit ridiculous.
- mochoson

Well it isn't 500k

Actually its everything. Sutton has zero of the emotional investment that Smytty does in Edmonton, both from the fanbase and vice versa.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

So asking for a trade back forfeits your right to then negotiate for the best possible deal, the next time you renew.

Lolol...weren't you the one talking about how you like logic...to say that smyth's open call to want to come back and not willing to take a fair deal (let alone a discount) compared to Sutton whi just signed a 1 year deal and got extended by the team as irrelevant is just illogical.
- OilHorse

So a few posts ago you say he doesn't owe the team anything.

Does he "owe" them? No.

Now apparently he does.

So asking for a trade back forfeits your right to then negotiate for the best possible deal, the next time you renew.
- Zombie

No, but it sure (frank)s you on the leverage.

Again, I don't know where this "both sides agreed to terms" thing came from. I did not hear that Edmonton was interested in signing Smyth to a two-year deal. Is there a pertinent article?

Again, I don't know where this "both sides agreed to terms" thing came from. I did not hear that Edmonton was interested in signing Smyth to a two-year deal. Is there a pertinent article?
- Morris

Sorry, it comes off the whole Bertuzzi-like offer.

That deal was a 2year, 2.25 per deal.

Again, I don't know where this "both sides agreed to terms" thing came from. I did not hear that Edmonton was interested in signing Smyth to a two-year deal. Is there a pertinent article?
- Morris

On what Smyth or Lander?

Gregor had it on ON the other day. Stauffer has talked about it as well. We gave Smyth a similar deal to what Betuzzi got. I'm pretty sure that was quite some time ago as Smyth countered with 1mil more than the Oilers offer. It's now being said that the Oilers probably don't even have the two year deal on the table and could be looking at 1 year deal with bonuses.

No, but it sure (frank)s you on the leverage.
- Lahey

It's a tough number to come out on.

He definitely had a falloff over the second half, but the first half he was producing like a 4+ million dollar player. It's really a tale of two halves scenarios, where everyone here seems to believe he'll pick up as a 30-point player and should be paid accordingly (2 million).

If he had ended the season at 55 points or so, we'd be trying to sign him in long term and higher money no question. Why isn't 46 points a middle point?

On what Smyth or Lander?

Gregor had it on ON the other day. Stauffer has talked about it as well. We gave Smyth a similar deal to what Betuzzi got. I'm pretty sure that was quite some time ago as Smyth countered with 1mil more than the Oilers offer. It's now being said that the Oilers probably don't even have the two year deal on the table and could be looking at 1 year deal with bonuses.
- Lahey

Seems like that would be more in line with what the Oil would want. Gives them a longer time frame to figure out the Smyth plans long term and gives Smyth potentially 3-3.5 million to make him happy.

It's a tough number to come out on.

He definitely had a falloff over the second half, but the first half he was producing like a 4+ million dollar player. It's really a tale of two halves scenarios, where everyone here seems to believe he'll pick up as a 30-point player and should be paid accordingly (2 million).

If he had ended the season at 55 points or so, we'd be trying to sign him in long term and higher money no question. Why isn't 46 points a middle point?
- Morris

People don't get SH% variance. Smyth (ballpark) shooting %'s was crazy high (20+%) to start the year, and crazy low (3-4%) for the last 40 or 50 games... He wasn't getting the bounces at all to end the year.

He'll bounce back from his second half form and probably fall into the 15 - 20 goal 35-45 point range for next year.

Sorry, it comes off the whole Bertuzzi-like offer.

That deal was a 2year, 2.25 per deal.
- OilHorse

ah, gotcha.

As I say, maybe a 1 year deal is better for everyone involved. I can see no problem with giving Smyth 3 million for one year and letting him know there won't be a big payday available on any future contracts.

People don't get SH% variance. Smyth (ballpark) shooting %'s was crazy high (20+%) to start the year, and crazy low (3-4%) for the last 40 or 5 games... He wasn't getting the bounces at all to end the year.

He'll bounce back from his second half form and probably fall into the 15 - 20 goal 35-45 point range for next year.
- Zombie

I think he could go higher. Depending on the moves this summer, he might be getting some top 6 time as a LWer.

I think he could go higher. Depending on the moves this summer, he might be getting some top 6 time as a LWer.
- Morris

I'm hoping they move one of Ebs/Hemsky/Yak to LW and have Smyth settle into a 3rd line roll.

It's a tough number to come out on.

He definitely had a falloff over the second half, but the first half he was producing like a 4+ million dollar player. It's really a tale of two halves scenarios, where everyone here seems to believe he'll pick up as a 30-point player and should be paid accordingly (2 million).

If he had ended the season at 55 points or so, we'd be trying to sign him in long term and higher money no question. Why isn't 46 points a middle point?
- Morris

22 points, 57 games (start of Dec)...32 ppyear.

from Oct 28 to Nov 25 (12 games) he scored 10 goals, 19 points.

leaves 13 games scattered in the season where he got 5 points, those 5 points are found in teh first 9 games of the season.

21 games, 24 points. In ~ 25% of the season he scored over 50% of his point total.

It is not that he had a "fall off" it is that he "got hot" for a month (or two) and scored 40% (52%) of his point total.

If means nothing. He DID score at an extremely reduced rate after Nov. The season is about 6.5 months long, he was not able to compete at a proper Top 6 winger level for 4.5 months (61 games).

People don't get SH% variance. Smyth (ballpark) shooting %'s was crazy high (20+%) to start the year, and crazy low (3-4%) for the last 40 or 50 games... He wasn't getting the bounces at all to end the year.

He'll bounce back from his second half form and probably fall into the 15 - 20 goal 35-45 point range for next year.
- Zombie

Smyth finished with a 10% s%.

You may be right on having a bounce back, i do not think you are. I think the avg is where he will stay. He will get reduced minutes in all situations and will not be able to get to 20g or over 30p.

I'm hoping they move one of Ebs/Hemsky/Yak to LW and have Smyth settle into a 3rd line roll.
- Zombie

Yeah, that sounds like the best option. I'd rather have Smyth there than PRV next season, though.

People don't get SH% variance. Smyth (ballpark) shooting %'s was crazy high (20+%) to start the year, and crazy low (3-4%) for the last 40 or 50 games... He wasn't getting the bounces at all to end the year.

He'll bounce back from his second half form and probably fall into the 15 - 20 goal 35-45 point range for next year.
- Zombie

Problem is Smyth has been like this for the past few years, odds are it's no changing.

22 points, 57 games (start of Dec)...32 ppyear.

from Oct 28 to Nov 25 (12 games) he scored 10 goals, 19 points.

leaves 13 games scattered in the season where he got 5 points, those 5 points are found in teh first 9 games of the season.

21 games, 24 points. In ~ 25% of the season he scored over 50% of his point total.

It is not that he had a "fall off" it is that he "got hot" for a month (or two) and scored 40% (52%) of his point total.

If means nothing. He DID score at an extremely reduced rate after Nov. The season is about 6.5 months long, he was not able to compete at a proper Top 6 winger level for 4.5 months (61 games).
- OilHorse

I'm not saying he deserves tons of money or an instant top 6 spot, but I think the situation is thornier than you guys are making it.

Does someone who performed at a 30 point pace for the entire season deserve the exact same amount of money as someone who performed at a 30 point pace for most of the season, but for a month and a half was perhaps the best LWer in the NHL?

I'd think, given he's shown a higher end potential than a guy who delivers an even keel 30 points, he might be in line to ask slightly more than an average 3rd liner. Not too much more, but a little bit more.

Smyth finished with a 10% s%.

You may be right on having a bounce back, i do not think you are. I think the avg is where he will stay. He will get reduced minutes in all situations and will not be able to get to 20g or over 30p.
- OilHorse

Which has pretty much been the case since he left here the first time.

11.79
10.68
10.12
8.33
10.2


Not like 9.79 is far off from those numbers.

Smyth finished with a 10% s%.

You may be right on having a bounce back, i do not think you are. I think the avg is where he will stay. He will get reduced minutes in all situations and will not be able to get to 20g or over 30p.
- OilHorse

I'm saying he'll bounce back to the 8% - 10% range from the 3%-4% range that he was at for the last 50ish games.

Yeah, that sounds like the best option. I'd rather have Smyth there than PRV next season, though.
- Morris

i reserve judgement on MPS until training camp...kid trains hard in off season (if this past year was normal and Renney was right about MPS being in the best shape out of the whole team) and was finding his game very well in the Barons playoff run.

Even then:

Hall.Nuge.Ebs
Hemmer.Gags.Yak (though Yak is left handed and has played LW so him and Hemsky can switch)
Smyth.Horc.Jones

I'm not saying he deserves tons of money or an instant top 6 spot, but I think the situation is thornier than you guys are making it.

Does someone who performed at a 30 point pace for the entire season deserve the exact same amount of money as someone who performed at a 30 point pace for most of the season, but for a month and a half was perhaps the best LWer in the NHL?

I'd think, given he's shown a higher end potential than a guy who delivers an even keel 30 points, he might be in line to ask slightly more than an average 3rd liner. Not too much more, but a little bit more.
- Morris

So why not give him 2mil, 1mil if he scores 20-20, 1mil 30-30? Or some sort of variation. Paying him because we hope he doesn't continue the same patterns that he's been on the past few years isn't a good thing.

I'm saying he'll bounce back to the 8% - 10% range from the 3%-4% range that he was at for the last 50ish games.
- Zombie

Not saying he won't, just posted the final%...19g in 194 shots.