Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Hartnell Assessment

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Hartnell Assessment
- bmeltzer

If not for Lecavalier, Hartnell would be the one deal I'd like to see them move most.

It's not because of his play, per se, but the length and NMC. Hartnell is what he is. He's going to score you 20-25 goals. he's going to help on the PP. He will provide physicality and hard work most nights.

He's also going to be undisciplined, taking bad penalties and making questionable decisions. He's not going to help much on defense and he's not going to be on the PK.

He does usually end up producing where ever he is used, though. I just don't like the years and stifling movement clause.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Hartnell Assessment
- bmeltzer

This blog makes me sad

As with VLC, both contracts being signed before age 35 allow retirement and no cap hit. I dont know what the medical requirements and coverage are for insurance to reimburse players for lost salary or if such a thing exists, but there is no Pronger LTIR debacle looming here if they are injured acutely or chronically and cannot play anymore.

If not for Lecavalier, Hartnell would be the one deal I'd like to see them move most.

It's not because of his play, per se, but the length and NMC. Hartnell is what he is. He's going to score you 20-25 goals. he's going to help on the PP. He will provide physicality and hard work most nights.

He's also going to be undisciplined, taking bad penalties and making questionable decisions. He's not going to help much on defense and he's not going to be on the PK.

He does usually end up producing where ever he is used, though. I just don't like the years and stifling movement clause.
- Jsaquella

I still hope they can move both. I agree Hartnell does what he is supposed to but I think he still has value and you could maybe get some picks or prospect and open some ap space and get a winger for Giroux. More of a finishing winger.

I still hope they can move both. I agree Hartnell does what he is supposed to but I think he still has value and you could maybe get some picks or prospect and open some ap space and get a winger for Giroux. More of a finishing winger.
- J35Bacher

I'd like to move Lecavalier, Hartnell & Grossmann this summer. If they do 2 out of the 3, I'll be content.

I just don't see Vinny fitting in. Maybe he can bounce back, maybe not. I don't want to bet on it.

Grossmann can be a solid, physical force on defense. But he's been banged up and he's a limited guy. They have a 24 year odl Luke Schenn that can be a physical stay at home guy, and paying those two over $7mm a year is bad cap useage, IMO.

An interesting idea......

So, lets assume Ryan Kesler is on a different team next season like most of the hockey world assumes he will be. This opens up a big spot on Vancouvers 2nd line, a team that already has very little center depth.

Because the term and dollars are almost identical, how does everyone feel about Lecavlier for Jason Garrison?

If this deal happened, I think Grossman would be as good as gone so that the team could resign Timonen.

Garrison-Coburn
Streit-Mac
Kimmo-Schenn
Gus

An interesting idea......

So, lets assume Ryan Kesler is on a different team next season like most of the hockey world assumes he will be. This opens up a big spot on Vancouvers 2nd line, a team that already has very little center depth.

Because the term and dollars are almost identical, how does everyone feel about Lecavlier for Jason Garrison?

If this deal happened, I think Grossman would be as good as gone so that the team could resign Timonen.

Garrison-Coburn
Streit-Mac
Kimmo-Schenn
Gus
- mochoson

I'd do it in a heartbeat...but I doubt Vancouver would. Also not sure if Vinny would waive his NMC to go west. I have heard rumors that he wants to stay in east

I'd like to move Lecavalier, Hartnell & Grossmann this summer. If they do 2 out of the 3, I'll be content.

I just don't see Vinny fitting in. Maybe he can bounce back, maybe not. I don't want to bet on it.

Grossmann can be a solid, physical force on defense. But he's been banged up and he's a limited guy. They have a 24 year odl Luke Schenn that can be a physical stay at home guy, and paying those two over $7mm a year is bad cap useage, IMO.
- Jsaquella

I agree. Grossmann will be tough to move because of the injury. I just would like to see Hextall build this team like ducks or sharks or kings. Those west coast teams fly, have skill and are gritty

I'd do it in a heartbeat...but I doubt Vancouver would. Also not sure if Vinny would waive his NMC to go west. I have heard rumors that he wants to stay in east
- Jsaquella

Another scenario could be Vinny to Ottawa. Would likely be attractive for the Sens given most of Vinny's money is front loaded.

Sens trade Spezza; depending on the return, they could possibly move a guy like MacArthur to cut more salary.

Turris and Lecavlier is your new 1-2 punch at center (assuming Flyers eat some of Vinny's salary) and Flyers get MacArthur, a much needed scoring LW.

That was a very fair look at Scott Hartnell and what he is and what he isn't.

And fwiw, I think he isn't going anywhere and I can see him bouncing back in a reduced role/different line.

I agree. Grossmann will be tough to move because of the injury. I just would like to see Hextall build this team like ducks or sharks or kings. Those west coast teams fly, have skill and are gritty
- J35Bacher

I'm not sure he'll be that tough to move, unless the injury is significant and expected to not be healed by the time camp starts.

I'm not even looking for much in way of return, picks or a mid-level prospect would be adequate for me.

Another scenario could be Vinny to Ottawa. Would likely be attractive for the Sens given most of Vinny's money is front loaded.

Sens trade Spezza; depending on the return, they could possibly move a guy like MacArthur to cut more salary.

Turris and Lecavlier is your new 1-2 punch at center (assuming Flyers eat some of Vinny's salary) and Flyers get MacArthur, a much needed scoring LW.
- mochoson

I think Vinny's value is a 3rd or 4th rounder. I don't think they're likely to get a whole lot for him.

I think Vinny's value is a 3rd or 4th rounder. I don't think they're likely to get a whole lot for him.
- Jsaquella

Agreed. If anything, we will give up more to move him or take salary back.

I'd like to move Lecavalier, Hartnell & Grossmann this summer. If they do 2 out of the 3, I'll be content.
- Jsaquella

NHL needs to have another expansion draft (or two)... so many contracts on the Flyers that I would love to leave exposed.

I think Vinny's value is a 3rd or 4th rounder. I don't think they're likely to get a whole lot for him.
- Jsaquella

Retto Berra got traded for a 2nd rounder to a team that already had 2 goalies.

It obviously depends on many intangibles, but your severely undervaluing a player who still scored 20 goals in what might have been the worst statistical season of his career.

I'm not saying the return will be extravagant, but we should be able to get a roster player for Vinny.

I just don't see how trading hartnell makes us better.

I don't want vanek for the money he'll get. I don't want moulson for the 5.5 he will get. This team had no shot of replacing his production from within.

He has to be better conditioned this summer. Put that onus on him, see how he comes to camp. Think about moving him next year if he's not doing what's asked of him

Retto Berra got traded for a 2nd rounder to a team that already had 2 goalies.

It obviously depends on many intangibles, but your severely undervaluing a player who still scored 20 goals in what might have been the worst statistical season of his career.
- mochoson

A player one year older and coming off multiple injuries and isn't a fit for the flyers. I think it has more to do with those factors and teams knowing the flyers want to move him and less about what he can bring to his new team.

I just don't see how trading hartnell makes us better.

I don't want vanek for the money he'll get. I don't want moulson for the 5.5 he will get. This team had no shot of replacing his production from within.

He has to be better conditioned this summer. Put that onus on him, see how he comes to camp. Think about moving him next year if he's not doing what's asked of him
- Just5

Trading hartnell could make them better or worse, depending on how they filled his role after the trade. Trading him would have to be part A of the plan, IMO. Just dumping him without an idea of how you fill his role doesn't make sense to me.

I just don't see how trading hartnell makes us better.
- Just5

Didn't Hextall say that sometimes you need to take 2 steps back to take 3 forward?

I think we can stop assuming that every possible move they make in the next few months will be from the perspective of getting better in 14-15.

Didn't Hextall say that sometimes you need to take 2 steps back to take 3 forward?

I think we can stop assuming that every possible move they make in the next few months will be from the perspective of getting better in 14-15.
- Tomahawk

I think it's tough to predict anything until we get a full picture of hextall's vision

A player one year older and coming off multiple injuries and isn't a fit for the flyers. I think it has more to do with those factors and teams knowing the flyers want to move him and less about what he can bring to his new team.
- funmaster18

Him not being a "fit" and the Flyers wanting to trade him is all pure speculation at this point as far as 29 other NHL GM's are concerned.

Didn't Hextall say that sometimes you need to take 2 steps back to take 3 forward?

I think we can stop assuming that every possible move they make in the next few months will be from the perspective of getting better in 14-15.
- Tomahawk

This

Trading hartnell could make them better or worse, depending on how they filled his role after the trade. Trading him would have to be part A of the plan, IMO. Just dumping him without an idea of how you fill his role doesn't make sense to me.
- funmaster18

Exactly.

There is plenty of history with Hartnell to suggest that he can bounce back.

He's not a stylistic mismatch or creating a logjam at a given position, like Vinny. Hartnell has played a role on this team and played it very well, at times. I don't think now is the time to move on from him, unless you have someone better to replace him.

And I don't think that guy is walking through that door this offseason.

Another scenario could be Vinny to Ottawa. Would likely be attractive for the Sens given most of Vinny's money is front loaded.

Sens trade Spezza; depending on the return, they could possibly move a guy like MacArthur to cut more salary.

Turris and Lecavlier is your new 1-2 punch at center (assuming Flyers eat some of Vinny's salary) and Flyers get MacArthur, a much needed scoring LW.
- mochoson

Heck throw Bobby Ryan in the trade along with some of our youth and i content with that. Especially when 14-15 ends and Bobby is free agent and wanting his dream to play in philly come true