Jeremy Laura: Wings B team beats Hawks B team 6-1

Well at least the Wings are ahead of the Hawks rebuild, it seems......

Well at least the Wings are ahead of the Hawks rebuild, it seems......
- HenryHockey

Not sure if you're kidding but the Hawks are in year 2 of their rebuild. Haven't the Wings been in rebuild mode for almost seven years now?

Maybe not. Thought they started rebuilding under Holland then Yzerman came in...so at least year 4 if we're being charitable.

Not sure if you're kidding but the Hawks are in year 2 of their rebuild. Haven't the Wings been in rebuild mode for almost seven years now?

Maybe not. Thought they started rebuilding under Holland then Yzerman came in...so at least year 4 if we're being charitable.
- HawkintheD

No... Holland did not start any kind of rebuild. Holland was a moron for refusing to do what should have started about 8 years ago. And this put the Wings in a terrible situation with no talent and salary cap hell... just so Holland could continue to keep the playoff streak alive. It came at a HUGE cost and delayed the rebuild until Yzerman was hired.

Yzerman inherited a complete dumpster fire... so Yzerman started cleaning up the mess 4 years ago. He's done an excellent job considering the mess he inherited. The team on the ice now are pretty much all Yzerman players he signed and/or drafted with the exception of a couple players.

Was a decent game to watch. Some of the kids look really good, some seem to need more time honing their skills. Kasper looked really good, Eddy looked like he may need more time as did Danielson and Elmer.

Compher looked better than anything I've seen of him this year. Solid FOW guy, good physical body work, nice quick release. But he better be if he's going to try to justify the $5+m a year he's being paid. Reimer looked pretty solid in this game as well.

Overall, decent game, right about what I thought it would be considering what each team was putting on the ice. Think we have a long way to go, but there are flashes of brilliance being shown more often by this team......

JT is looking really strong. I’m not trying to do a run around the base at saying I told you all so…. But he really seems to go to the right areas, offensively, and can put the puck away.

No... Holland did not start any kind of rebuild. Holland was a moron for refusing to do what should have started about 8 years ago. And this put the Wings in a terrible situation with no talent and salary cap hell... just so Holland could continue to keep the playoff streak alive. It came at a HUGE cost and delayed the rebuild until Yzerman was hired.

Yzerman inherited a complete dumpster fire... so Yzerman started cleaning up the mess 4 years ago. He's done an excellent job considering the mess he inherited. The team on the ice now are pretty much all Yzerman players he signed and/or drafted with the exception of a couple players.
- Vladdie_Kon1

My bad. Thought it started under him and continued under Yzerman. I know Holland was still signing players to questionable deals to keep things going and the Wings probably should've started rebuilding at the very least, that first year they missed the playoffs.

Either way...the Hawks are two years behind you on a rebuild so they have some time to catch up.

JT is looking really strong. I’m not trying to do a run around the base at saying I told you all so…. But he really seems to go to the right areas, offensively, and can put the puck away.
- NC_Scott

The games I've watched him play have been good. I'm not a fan of the guy, but don't hate him. I guess that the price to be paid was set because we needed someone to step into the breach until our internals were ready. I hope the dude abides and we benefit.....

My bad. Thought it started under him and continued under Yzerman. I know Holland was still signing players to questionable deals to keep things going and the Wings probably should've started rebuilding at the very least, that first year they missed the playoffs.

Either way...the Hawks are two years behind you on a rebuild so they have some time to catch up.
- HawkintheD

Holland spent millions on dead-beats like Abdelkader......he screwed the team, but what we don't know is what type of guidance he was getting from ownership. Now, I'm NOT taking up for Holland, but I would offer that if you receive questionable guidance you should question it and make a stand. Rolling over for some pie-in-the-sky dream is mis-guided at best. It set the Wings back at least double the years (so we struggled in the SCPO for 4/5 years, I would think it'll be 4-8 years to truly recover......so I think we're on track to return to glory).

Not sure if you're kidding but the Hawks are in year 2 of their rebuild. Haven't the Wings been in rebuild mode for almost seven years now?

Maybe not. Thought they started rebuilding under Holland then Yzerman came in...so at least year 4 if we're being charitable.
- HawkintheD

Holland's last year as GM, this was the (simplified) roster/cap sheet at the end of the season

Dylan Larkin, $6.1 million
Henrik Zetterberg, $6.1 million
Frans Nielsen, $5.25 million
Justin Abdelkader, $4.25 million
Darren Helm, $3.85 million
Anthony Mantha, $3.3 million
Thomas Vanek, $3 million
Andreas Athanasiou, $3 million
Luke Glendening, $1.8 million
Tyler Bertuzzi, $1.4 million
Jacob De La Rose, $900k
Luke Witkowski, $750k

Mike Green, $5.4 million
Dan DeKeyser, $5 million
Niklas Kronwall, $4.75 million
Jonathan Ericsson, $4.25 million
Trevor Daley, $3.2 million 
Madison Bowey, $1 million

Jimmy Howard, $5.3 million
Jonathan Bernier, $3 million

Johan Franzen (Full season LTIR): $3.9 million

Traded away mid-season:
Gustav Nyquist: $3.25 million
Nick Jensen: $800k

CAP SPACE REMAINING AT END OF SEASON: $0 (used almost $7 million of LTIR)

Holland was sorta starting to dip his baby toes into rebuild mode at the previous trade deadline when he moved Tatar and Mrazek, followed by Nyquist and Jensen in his final year as GM. But this is still a roster absolutely bloated with washed up veterans signed to expensive and untradable contracts, which Holland failed to move. Yzerman had to do the actual teardown.

As for the rebuild, it's been frustrating. Overall I think Yzerman has made more good moves than bad ones. But the reality is that if you bottom out and don't come away with at least one and probably two MVP-caliber players in 3-4 years of potential lottery picks you're kinda SOL. Seider and Raymond were really good picks considering where they were taken and who was available, but the Wings desperately needed to walk out with a Stutzle, Hughes, Makar, etc. level player and, aside from an outside chance of Seider getting there, they really never had a chance.

Bedard will probably be that guy for you guys. The draft after Detroit hit absolute rock bottom they whiffed on all three lottery balls, picked fourth, and Raymond was the best guy left. So it goes.

Holland's last year as GM, this was the (simplified) roster/cap sheet at the end of the season

Dylan Larkin, $6.1 million
Henrik Zetterberg, $6.1 million
Frans Nielsen, $5.25 million
Justin Abdelkader, $4.25 million
Darren Helm, $3.85 million
Anthony Mantha, $3.3 million
Thomas Vanek, $3 million
Andreas Athanasiou, $3 million
Luke Glendening, $1.8 million
Tyler Bertuzzi, $1.4 million
Jacob De La Rose, $900k
Luke Witkowski, $750k

Mike Green, $5.4 million
Dan DeKeyser, $5 million
Niklas Kronwall, $4.75 million
Jonathan Ericsson, $4.25 million
Trevor Daley, $3.2 million 
Madison Bowey, $1 million

Jimmy Howard, $5.3 million
Jonathan Bernier, $3 million

Johan Franzen (Full season LTIR): $3.9 million

Traded away mid-season:
Gustav Nyquist: $3.25 million
Nick Jensen: $800k

CAP SPACE REMAINING AT END OF SEASON: $0 (used almost $7 million of LTIR)

Holland was sorta starting to dip his baby toes into rebuild mode at the previous trade deadline when he moved Tatar and Mrazek, followed by Nyquist and Jensen in his final year as GM. But this is still a roster absolutely bloated with washed up veterans signed to expensive and untradable contracts, which Holland failed to move. Yzerman had to do the actual teardown.

As for the rebuild, it's been frustrating. Overall I think Yzerman has made more good moves than bad ones. But the reality is that if you bottom out and don't come away with at least one and probably two MVP-caliber players in 3-4 years of potential lottery picks you're kinda SOL. Seider and Raymond were really good picks considering where they were taken and who was available, but the Wings desperately needed to walk out with a Stutzle, Hughes, Makar, etc. level player and, aside from an outside chance of Seider getting there, they really never had a chance.

Bedard will probably be that guy for you guys. The year after Detroit hit absolute rock bottom they picked fourth and Raymond was the best guy left. So it goes.
- Sven22

Yeah, I know they changed the rules after Detroit fell in the draft further than it should have given where you guys finished.

Agree on both the Seider and Raymond picks, especially Seider when you consider where he was picked and when he was supposed to go.

I could see both really hitting their stride this year. Wings have some other good young prospects so should be a decent year. The East is going to be a grinder though and even though a few teams got worse, will still be tough to make the playoffs.

Yeah, I know they changed the rules after Detroit fell in the draft further than it should have given where you guys finished.

Agree on both the Seider and Raymond picks, especially Seider when you consider where he was picked and when he was supposed to go.

I could see both really hitting their stride this year. Wings have some other good young prospects so should be a decent year. The East is going to be a grinder though and even though a few teams got worse, will still be tough to make the playoffs.
- HawkintheD

I have a suspicion that Boston and Tampa in particular are going to fall very suddenly and very hard once their windows finally close. But it probably won't be this year yet. The Atlantic will still be super tough, and Detroit not only has to take a spot from one of the current top four, but also outcompete Buffalo and Ottawa (who are both arguably better positioned in their rebuild than Detroit is, and certainly have more top-end talent) for those spots.

At least the Canadiens still suck.

The two players I'm most interested in seeing play are Danielson and Compher. I think these two players will be instrumental for Detroit's success now and in the future. I think Danielson has a higher ceiling than Kasper... just my gut feeling after seeing both of them play.

I think the top 6 will be more effective with Compher centering the 2nd line over Copp (who belongs on the 3rd line). Getting Rasmussen back in the lineup will also help. If the Wings can get a solid 3rd line that produces it will make a big difference. Lyon should be the backup in Detroit by default at this point unless he completely falls apart. Lyon will get claimed off waivers unless he's protected, so I'm glad there's 3 goalies right now.

I have a suspicion that Boston and Tampa in particular are going to fall very suddenly and very hard once their windows finally close. But it probably won't be this year yet. The Atlantic will still be super tough, and Detroit not only has to take a spot from one of the current top four, but also outcompete Buffalo and Ottawa (who are both arguably better positioned in their rebuild than Detroit is, and certainly have more top-end talent) for those spots.

At least the Canadiens still suck.
- Sven22

I will agree that both Buffalo and Ottawa have more talent but both those teams have major issues imo.

Buffalo has 2 average AHL level goalies and a rookie with 7 NHL games of experience. They have to pray one of them somehow becomes a solid #1 for them to make the playoffs. I really don't know why that GM keeps rolling out bad or injury prone goalies year after year. If he would have gone out and gotten a proven #1 starter, they would be almost a lock for the playoffs imo.

The problem with Ottawa isn't on the ice although their bottom 6 is questionable. Their main problem is behind the bench and i don't see them in the playoffs until they get rid of him and bring in a decent coach. DJ Smith is Blashill level of bad if not worst. He loves big talentless players and overplays them to the point the GM has to get rid of them so he can't play them anymore.

I will agree that both Buffalo and Ottawa have more talent but both those teams have major issues imo.

Buffalo has 2 average AHL level goalies and a rookie with 7 NHL games of experience. They have to pray one of them somehow becomes a solid #1 for them to make the playoffs. I really don't know why that GM keeps rolling out bad or injury prone goalies year after year. If he would have gone out and gotten a proven #1 starter, they would be almost a lock for the playoffs imo.

The problem with Ottawa isn't on the ice although their bottom 6 is questionable. Their main problem is behind the bench and i don't see them in the playoffs until they get rid of him and bring in a decent coach. DJ Smith is Blashill level of bad if not worst. He loves big talentless players and overplays them to the point the GM has to get rid of them so he can't play them anymore.
- dcz28

Short term, absolutely both Ottawa and Buffalo have problems. I could easily see Detroit finishing ahead of both this year mainly due to superior depth.

The question is who has the best foundation to succeed long term. The hardest part of building a championship contender is getting at least 2-3 legit all-stars in your core, ideally with at least one borderline MVP/Norris caliber player. Ottawa has Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson all under 25. Buffalo has Tage and Dahlin, and Cozens just scored 31 as a 21-year-old.

Detroit's got Seider. Larkin is 27. DeBrincat is a good first liner but not more than that, and also turns 26 soon. Jury's still out on Raymond (this is a colossal year for him) but he may well top out at "fairly competent first liner" instead of legit all-star.

Yzerman has done a good job solidifying the bottom half of the roster but I can't help but feel like if Seider doesn't become the next Hedman and Raymond doesn't become a consistent point-per-game player the Wings are in deep trouble.

Buffalo and Ottawa arguably have more problems but their problems also seem to be relatively fixable ones. That doesn't mean they will fix them of course. You still gotta support the stars with the right role players and coach, and if your team isn't well managed you can absolutely screw it up. But at least they have the stars in the first place. Detroit very well might not.

Short term, absolutely both Ottawa and Buffalo have problems. I could easily see Detroit finishing ahead of both this year mainly due to superior depth.

The question is who has the best foundation to succeed long term. The hardest part of building a championship contender is getting at least 2-3 legit all-stars in your core, ideally with at least one borderline MVP/Norris caliber player. Ottawa has Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson all under 25. Buffalo has Tage and Dahlin, and Cozens just scored 31 as a 21-year-old.

Detroit's got Seider. Larkin is 27. DeBrincat is a good first liner but not more than that, and also turns 26 soon. Jury's still out on Raymond (this is a colossal year for him) but he may well top out at "fairly competent first liner" instead of legit all-star.

Yzerman has done a good job solidifying the bottom half of the roster but I can't help but feel like if Seider doesn't become the next Hedman and Raymond doesn't become a consistent point-per-game player the Wings are in deep trouble.

Buffalo and Ottawa arguably have more problems but their problems also seem to be relatively fixable ones. That doesn't mean they will fix them of course. You still gotta support the stars with the right role players and coach, and if your team isn't well managed you can absolutely screw it up. But at least they have the stars in the first place. Detroit very well might not.
- Sven22

I'm not going to confuse Dinky with Patrice Bergeron but he did work on his overall game the last few years and is definitely a more complete player than when he first arrived in Chicago.

I'm not going to confuse Dinky with Patrice Bergeron but he did work on his overall game the last few years and is definitely a more complete player than when he first arrived in Chicago.
- HawkintheD

Don't get me wrong, I like DeBrincat as a player and I like the contract he signed with Detroit. Very glad he's here. But I don't think he's a better player than Larkin, and I don't think that a team with Larkin as its best forward is getting anywhere near a Stanley Cup without a lot of puck luck.

Thank you guys for the back and forth. It’s a joy during some tough times. With everything else going on, last night my cap fell off while I was eating (back molar). Some days everything feels broken and you guys have made this fun even when it’s tough

Short term, absolutely both Ottawa and Buffalo have problems. I could easily see Detroit finishing ahead of both this year mainly due to superior depth.

The question is who has the best foundation to succeed long term. The hardest part of building a championship contender is getting at least 2-3 legit all-stars in your core, ideally with at least one borderline MVP/Norris caliber player. Ottawa has Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson all under 25. Buffalo has Tage and Dahlin, and Cozens just scored 31 as a 21-year-old.

Detroit's got Seider. Larkin is 27. DeBrincat is a good first liner but not more than that, and also turns 26 soon. Jury's still out on Raymond (this is a colossal year for him) but he may well top out at "fairly competent first liner" instead of legit all-star.

Yzerman has done a good job solidifying the bottom half of the roster but I can't help but feel like if Seider doesn't become the next Hedman and Raymond doesn't become a consistent point-per-game player the Wings are in deep trouble.

Buffalo and Ottawa arguably have more problems but their problems also seem to be relatively fixable ones. That doesn't mean they will fix them of course. You still gotta support the stars with the right role players and coach, and if your team isn't well managed you can absolutely screw it up. But at least they have the stars in the first place. Detroit very well might not.
- Sven22

It's pretty obvious the Wings will need more young players to reach their potential and even surpass it if they ever hope to be a serious cup contender. Even if Raymond and Seider are both all stars, they still need more, especially at center. Compher and Copp are not it and just place holders. Kapser and Danielson have some potential but don't seem like they have that offensive potential you want in a #1 or #2 center although you never know.

The good news for the Wings is they still have a lot of assets in prospects and picks that they can trade in order to get what they need if they can't find them in the draft. For example if Pettersson tells Vancouver he won't sign long term with them after this season, the Wings would have the assets to make a deal happen and get the young proven center they need. Luckily for the Wings, Yzerman is pretty good at trades and isn't afraid to make deals.

For that fact, i don't just look at what the Wings have in their system and that they might not have the star players they will need to contend but also that they have the assets needed if young star players do become available in trades to make those deals and bring in what they need that they might not have in their system. Lets face it, the UFA market isn't what it use to be. Most of the time it's aging decent players but not stars coming off a career year looking to cash in long term. Most teams lock up their young stars to long term big money deals after their ELCs run out or they might have to trade them soon enough if they don't. You can get complimentary and depth players as UFAs but rarely will you find guys to add to your core. You either have to draft those or trade for them.

My bad. Thought it started under him and continued under Yzerman. I know Holland was still signing players to questionable deals to keep things going and the Wings probably should've started rebuilding at the very least, that first year they missed the playoffs.

Either way...the Hawks are two years behind you on a rebuild so they have some time to catch up.
- HawkintheD

The Hawks started off on better terms for a rebuild than the Wings. 2 main reasons alone:
1-the draft, they definitely have a big edge. The Hawks moved up, where the Wings have continuously moved down/or stayed the same in the past 7 years. The Wings don’t have a Bedard factor like the Hawks (he can help draw players to want to play for the Hawks).
2-The buyouts Yzerman had to deal with- heck they still have 3 more years on Abs buyout, finally are done with Neilson etc. A lot of moving out what Yzerman considered the “wrong type of player” He has literally turned over (I’m guessing here) 90% of Hollands picks/contracts

It's pretty obvious the Wings will need more young players to reach their potential and even surpass it if they ever hope to be a serious cup contender. Even if Raymond and Seider are both all stars, they still need more, especially at center. Compher and Copp are not it and just place holders. Kapser and Danielson have some potential but don't seem like they have that offensive potential you want in a #1 or #2 center although you never know.

The good news for the Wings is they still have a lot of assets in prospects and picks that they can trade in order to get what they need if they can't find them in the draft. For example if Pettersson tells Vancouver he won't sign long term with them after this season, the Wings would have the assets to make a deal happen and get the young proven center they need. Luckily for the Wings, Yzerman is pretty good at trades and isn't afraid to make deals.

For that fact, i don't just look at what the Wings have in their system and that they might not have the star players they will need to contend but also that they have the assets needed if young star players do become available in trades to make those deals and bring in what they need that they might not have in their system. Lets face it, the UFA market isn't what it use to be. Most of the time it's aging decent players but not stars coming off a career year looking to cash in long term. Most teams lock up their young stars to long term big money deals after their ELCs run out or they might have to trade them soon enough if they don't. You can get complimentary and depth players as UFAs but rarely will you find guys to add to your core. You either have to draft those or trade for them.
- dcz28

I'm certainly aware of the trade route as an option to acquire one of those missing star pieces.

My point is only that Ottawa and Buffalo potentially have those core pieces already and Detroit probably does not. That doesn't mean they can't be acquired and the Wimgs are inevitably doomed. There's still time to catch up with shrewd roster moves and luck. But Yzerman has his work cut out for him, and you might still prefer to be in their position than ours right now.

I'm certainly aware of the trade route as an option to acquire one of those missing star pieces.

My point is only that Ottawa and Buffalo potentially have those core pieces already and Detroit probably does not. That doesn't mean they can't be acquired and the Wimgs are inevitably doomed. There's still time to catch up with shrewd roster moves and luck. But Yzerman has his work cut out for him, and you might still prefer to be in their position than ours right now.
- Sven22

There are already some Wings fans (not here) that think the Wings are doomed to be average at best and never a true contender because they haven't drafted a Bedard or sure superstar player. They feel the Wings should have tanked last season and should still be tanking this year. They feel Perron, Copp, Compher, Ghost ect...none of them should have been signed and just go with the young players instead and suck. There are many problems that can come with that route.

Buffalo has been rebuilding for a very long time and have gotten multiple 1st overall and top 3 picks. Ottawa pretty much started when they traded Karlsson and Stone but unlike Detroit, they actually had players they could trade that had value. They also got very lucky that Montreal took Kotkaniemi and not Tkachuk or they might have ended with Zadina or something. They also got very lucky to get the 3rd overall pick from the Sharks in the Karlsson trade and not a mid to late 1st. Their team could look a lot different if not for those two things falling in place for them.

One thing i think that has hurt the Wings a bit in the drafting (aside from the stupid lottery) is that the Wings have seemed to go for size over skill. They seem to go for the safer bigger guys over the smaller guys with more offensive potential. Hopefully there are a Brayden Point and Kucherov hiding in the system already drafted that will come into their own soon enough but i at this point, i wouldn't put a lot of money on it. There are some interesting prospects though.

Don't get me wrong, I like DeBrincat as a player and I like the contract he signed with Detroit. Very glad he's here. But I don't think he's a better player than Larkin, and I don't think that a team with Larkin as its best forward is getting anywhere near a Stanley Cup without a lot of puck luck.
- Sven22

Don't disagree. I was also glad the Hawks traded instead of resigning DeBrincat. I like the player but IIRC the way his contract was structured, he would've needed to receive a QO of $9M to remain a Hawk. That's the kind of money you give Core players and I just didn't see him as one...especially when Seth Jones is also getting $9M.