Eklund: Marc Andre Fleury Fastest to 450 Wins. One of the best ever?

Eklund: Marc Andre Fleury Fastest to 450 Wins. One of the best ever?
- Eklund

Its a shame that we even owe a 2nd in 2020 to VGK for giving their first franchise player to them...

MAF one of the best ever?

Yup

Eklund: Marc Andre Fleury Fastest to 450 Wins. One of the best ever?
- Eklund

Depends what "One of the best" means. Is he a top-100 all-time goalie? yes. Is he a HHOF caliber player? Probably not. If Curtis Joseph isn't in the HHOF, then MAF should not be either.

Hey Ek. Maybe mention that Brodeur, Roy, etc...played in an era of tie games. Fleury gets extra wins in OT gimmicks and shoot-outs. Otherwise a pretty thorough analysis here...

Depends what "One of the best" means. Is he a top-100 all-time goalie? yes. Is he a HHOF caliber player? Probably not. If Curtis Joseph isn't in the HHOF, then MAF should not be either.
- jmatchett383

I think Flower will have enough wins and Cups to make the HOF, IMHO.

To me he is 'one of the best' for overall results, team spirit and likeability. He will always be a Penguin to many of us Pittsburgh hockey fans.

How can MAF not be a HHOF goalie?

He has cups, wins, 2.51 gaa and. 915 save %

I would make the case that based on his career he is a top ten - fifteen goalie of all time.

How can MAF not be a HHOF goalie?

He has cups, wins, 2.51 gaa and. 915 save %

I would make the case that based on his career he is a top ten - fifteen goalie of all time.
- opeth_pa

Hmmm, not too shabby coming from a Flyers fan. Flower thanks YOU!

Definite HOF'er. Top 10 goalies of all time!!

Eklund: Marc Andre Fleury Fastest to 450 Wins. One of the best ever?
- Eklund

would you lump in with hasek, roy and brodeur?

if you have to think for more then a second, he clearly is not one of the best ever

How can MAF not be a HHOF goalie?

He has cups, wins, 2.51 gaa and. 915 save %

I would make the case that based on his career he is a top ten - fifteen goalie of all time.
- opeth_pa

agreed


but not one of the best ever

Probably the best playing right now, and I would say top 10-15 all time as of rignt now, keep leading Vegas to deep playoff runs is gonna do nothing but cement his legacy. Pretty good playoff goalie, IMO.

So not only Ek, but many of you are forgetting about tie games. Brodeur won his first 450 games before shootouts and 4-on-4 or 3-on-3 OT gimmicks. As a results he had 154 ties in his career. Most of those (ie 100+) were true tie games, and not an OT/SO loss. So take say those first 100 tie games and insist that each results in a win or loss. Even if the Devil's win just 50% of those games, that gives Brodeur 50 more wins. So he's at 500 before MAF hits 450. Such a flawed comparison. It's like pretending Larkin is faster than McDavid because he had a moving start. Wake up people!

How can MAF not be a HHOF goalie?

He has cups, wins, 2.51 gaa and. 915 save %

I would make the case that based on his career he is a top ten - fifteen goalie of all time.
- opeth_pa

If that's the criteria, then Chris Osgood has a legit shot at the HHOF.

Changes in the rules seem to impact goalies the most. How do you compare Patty Roy decked out like a stormtrooper under his jersey with goalies that played before or since? MAF's a great, there's no question. I have no idea how to rank him against the Roy's, Brodeur's, Hasek's, Fuhrs, et al of seasons gone by.

If that's the criteria, then Chris Osgood has a legit shot at the HHOF.
- jmatchett383

Osgood has substantially less wins, a substantially worse Save % and a slightly better goals against avg.

I don't really see a comparison.

He's lacking the individual hardware to be considered at the level of Hasek, Roy and Brodeur. HoF goalie for sure, but below those 3 in all time greats

HOF, probably especially if he keeps producing and I do not see him slowing down. Comparing players of different eras in the quest to identify the GOAT always makes for great debate.

29 is on track to easily be 3rd all time in wins, and probably 2nd. HOF for sure. Anything could happen but he is on pace to be 5th all-time in wins by the end of THIS year and could hit 3rd by end of next year-

Not a Hall of Fame goalie. Wins are a team stat. Fleury has never finished higher than fourth in Vezina voting in any given season.

That said, despite a (partially earned) reputation for inconsistency earlier in his career, Fleury has since pretty consistently been an above average to very good NHL starter for most of his career. His resurgence with Vegas has been awesome to see, and he seems like a genuinely great dude.

Maybe if puts together a couple of elite seasons yet (very difficult to do in your late 30s, but not necessarily impossible) I'll reconsider, but as of right now he's a hard no. He's an example of a very good goaltender who played for very good teams. Great guy, great career, not a HOFer.

Depends what "One of the best" means. Is he a top-100 all-time goalie? yes. Is he a HHOF caliber player? Probably not. If Curtis Joseph isn't in the HHOF, then MAF should not be either.
- jmatchett383

I'd tend to agree with this at the moment. But, I think the rest of his career will be the determining factor. If he wins another cup...definitely HHOF. same with a vezina.

I mean, Flower's great, definite HHOF material... But is 450 wins somehow a major milestone? Wouldn't this make more sense, say, at 500?

As other mentioned, you can't compare goalie stats because of OT/shootouts and also stats aren't reliable because of the different era the goalies played in.

He is top 15 and will make it to the HoF no doubt. What he did in Vegas will help his legacy.

I mean, Flower's great, definite HHOF material... But is 450 wins somehow a major milestone? Wouldn't this make more sense, say, at 500?
- Bartacus

Win milestones for goalies are essentially meaningless anyway, especially in the shootout era.

Fleury has 58 career shootout wins. Before 2006 those all would have been ties. Before the regulation tie (1999 I think?) a lot of his OT wins would also have been ties. Before 1983, there was no regular season OT at all. If Fleury had been a generation older he probably would have close to 100 fewer wins by this point in his career, and that's assuming he would have gotten the same opportunities with similarly loaded teams.

The sooner we all agree to stop judging goalies based on wins, the better.

455 puts him 5th all time - it is a major milestone-