Jared Crozier: The Senators at 40 GP & Some Mid-Season Thoughts

I like the composition and look of the team. They are still very young. Patience is important.

I like the composition and look of the team. They are still very young. Patience is important.
- spatso

Honestly, the longer you watch hockey... these type of statements become way too common.

Obviously Sens have great pieces. So do the Jets, Wild, and many other teams. Brian Murray AS A GM... has been here long enough. In no way should be the GM (or the main guy making them moves) after July.

What they do at the deadline, draft, and into July is soo important and right now it's about getting top end talent (top 6 or top pairing)

Honestly, the longer you watch hockey... these type of statements become way too common.

Obviously Sens have great pieces. So do the Jets, Wild, and many other teams. Brian Murray AS A GM... has been here long enough. In no way should be the GM (or the main guy making them moves) after July.

What they do at the deadline, draft, and into July is soo important and right now it's about getting top end talent (top 6 or top pairing)
- AlfieisKing

so you're saying that what he has done since taking over as GM has been for the most part wrong????

Sure he's had a few misses here and there, but for the most part I think he's done a great job.

you cant just flip a switch (or perhaps in your case click some setting on your NHL15) and make these types of things happen. What your asking for is being sought by 29 other teams in the league and the supply of those assets is vewry limited.

Honestly, the longer you watch hockey... these type of statements become way too common.

Obviously Sens have great pieces. So do the Jets, Wild, and many other teams. Brian Murray AS A GM... has been here long enough. In no way should be the GM (or the main guy making them moves) after July.

What they do at the deadline, draft, and into July is soo important and right now it's about getting top end talent (top 6 or top pairing)
- AlfieisKing

This is the ebb and flow of hockey my friend. You go from being a strong contending team to a rebuilding team. The problem here is not attributable to our GM - it can be attributed to a cheap owner paired with unrealistic expectations for a rebuild (2-3 years?) and a fluke exceptional season that made people think we were better than we are.

Truth of the matter is that over the next few years, the team should start to develop a stronger identity and stronger game. I believe this was planned by management. Fans want the team to be good now, but what we should be hoping for is for our players to develop well (play well as much as possible, but really, this is a grooming process).

GMBM has done a fine job, especially with our prospect stock. On trades, he's made a few OK deals, and has had a couple that didn't turn out great. That said, I find it hard to fault the guy!

This is the ebb and flow of hockey my friend.....
... GMBM has done a fine job, especially with our prospect stock. On trades, he's made a few OK deals, and has had a couple that didn't turn out great. That said, I find it hard to fault the guy!
- sensano

Honestly? You hard it find to fault him? Maybe that's a somewhat fair statement since you have to do things to be faulted. I agree that the scouting and developing of some players has been good. But BM wasn't made GM 2 years ago. Brian Murray took over in the summer of 2007.

He did indeed acquire a very difficult situation. He had to resign some big names and hand out BIG contracts ($45M for Heatley, $49M for Spezza, $21M for Fisher, and $9.5M for Emery). Now whenever you hand out $124.5M that's something that shows the owner is committed to wining. The problem was that the former GM Muckler and his staff didn't do a good job of restocking the shelves to keep up the contending level.

The team had to sign players like Kovalev and LeClaire (among others). The window of winning the cup shut pretty quick and the team FINALLY commit to focusing on scouting and selling. Now, Murray did a good job of making moves, the problem period came again in 2013. The team lost Bishop for nothing. Alfie for nothing. And traded a 1st round pick with Silfverberg for Ryan. That's a good deal but why have this guy here when you're rebuilding?

Answer: They thought the rebuild was over, throw a C on Spezza, and onto the next stage. IMO: that was premature. that was a mismanagement of assets (F U Yzerman). The team DOES have good picks and young players. Team needs to sell assets bcuz this team is not contending in 5-6 months and not in 17-18 months either. Being good is not being great. And you have to be far beyond great to return to the cup finals

Honestly? You hard it find to fault him? Maybe that's a somewhat fair statement since you have to do things to be faulted. I agree that the scouting and developing of some players has been good. But BM wasn't made GM 2 years ago. Brian Murray took over in the summer of 2007.

He did indeed acquire a very difficult situation. He had to resign some big names and hand out BIG contracts ($45M for Heatley, $49M for Spezza, $21M for Fisher, and $9.5M for Emery). Now whenever you hand out $124.5M that's something that shows the owner is committed to wining. The problem was that the former GM Muckler and his staff didn't do a good job of restocking the shelves to keep up the contending level.

The team had to sign players like Kovalev and LeClaire (among others). The window of winning the cup shut pretty quick and the team FINALLY commit to focusing on scouting and selling. Now, Murray did a good job of making moves, the problem period came again in 2013. The team lost Bishop for nothing. Alfie for nothing. And traded a 1st round pick with Silfverberg for Ryan. That's a good deal but why have this guy here when you're rebuilding?

Answer: They thought the rebuild was over, throw a C on Spezza, and onto the next stage. IMO: that was premature. that was a mismanagement of assets (F U Yzerman). The team DOES have good picks and young players. Team needs to sell assets bcuz this team is not contending in 5-6 months and not in 17-18 months either. Being good is not being great. And you have to be far beyond great to return to the cup finals
- AlfieisKing

The name on your account has been around for a while, but it's like you're new to the board and haven't seen the posts on this over the last year or so....

- Murray got what he could for Bishop – a young rookie, who had Calder potential at the time
- It is widely accepted that the Alfie affair had less to do with Murray and more to do with Melnyk
- So far the Ryan trade has been a one-sided win for Ottawa
-Spezza deservedly got the C, didn’t like being in the spotlight and requested a trade – Murray can hardly be blamed for that. It was at this point that the retool was over and the rebuild began.

Your post started by showing that Murray had done several things well ...... and the general thought is that your criticisms are unfounded.....


So, I repeat he has done a better than average job – hardly deserving of harsh critism.

Honestly? You hard it find to fault him? Maybe that's a somewhat fair statement since you have to do things to be faulted. I agree that the scouting and developing of some players has been good. But BM wasn't made GM 2 years ago. Brian Murray took over in the summer of 2007.

He did indeed acquire a very difficult situation. He had to resign some big names and hand out BIG contracts ($45M for Heatley, $49M for Spezza, $21M for Fisher, and $9.5M for Emery). Now whenever you hand out $124.5M that's something that shows the owner is committed to wining. The problem was that the former GM Muckler and his staff didn't do a good job of restocking the shelves to keep up the contending level.

The team had to sign players like Kovalev and LeClaire (among others). The window of winning the cup shut pretty quick and the team FINALLY commit to focusing on scouting and selling. Now, Murray did a good job of making moves, the problem period came again in 2013. The team lost Bishop for nothing. Alfie for nothing. And traded a 1st round pick with Silfverberg for Ryan. That's a good deal but why have this guy here when you're rebuilding?

Answer: They thought the rebuild was over, throw a C on Spezza, and onto the next stage. IMO: that was premature. that was a mismanagement of assets (F U Yzerman). The team DOES have good picks and young players. Team needs to sell assets bcuz this team is not contending in 5-6 months and not in 17-18 months either. Being good is not being great. And you have to be far beyond great to return to the cup finals
- AlfieisKing

I think it's easy to see which category you fall into....

I think it's easy to see which category you fall into....
- Jordo

I don't fall into categories, I'm a person. u sound condescending

The name on your account has been around for a while, but it's like you're new to the board and haven't seen the posts on this over the last year or so....

- Murray got what he could for Bishop – a young rookie, who had Calder potential at the time
- It is widely accepted that the Alfie affair had less to do with Murray and more to do with Melnyk
- So far the Ryan trade has been a one-sided win for Ottawa
-Spezza deservedly got the C, didn’t like being in the spotlight and requested a trade – Murray can hardly be blamed for that. It was at this point that the retool was over and the rebuild began.

Your post started by showing that Murray had done several things well ...... and the general thought is that your criticisms are unfounded.....


So, I repeat he has done a better than average job – hardly deserving of harsh critism.
- SensnRBs

Ok: 1) Stop defending the Bishop trade (anyone), it was a mistake. Truth is they should of traded Anderson at that year (don't say "playing like vezina..)
2) Fair enough. Whoever's to blame, they let an asset go without nothing - and the Sens will never make the playoffs without that type of player (they never have)
3) The min they threw Spezza the C I predicted that being a disaster (one of the few times I was right about a predictioning)
4) Murray can be blamed a lot bcuz he's in the position. I like Murray a lot. I met him. He's a great person. But 8 years at the helm is long enough. More importantly, the results are there and it's time for people to stop wanting to be right and want a championship; mark my words, and it kills me to say this; this team will not contend with the current regime. A new Gm, new coach, or new top line end talent (or all of the above) will be needed before that

Naturally, I have a few thoughts...

Hoffman
- it would be hard to suggest he's not the biggest surprise of the first half of the season, given that he's leading the team in goals, even-strength points, and plus/minus... the real question is when they're going to take him off the PP leash, where he should at the very least be matching the ice time of players like Michalek, Stone, or Chiasson

Ryan
- for my money, he's the second biggest surprise of the first half of the season, for a few reasons... a) the team's persistence in playing him away from Turris and MacArthur, which has now spanned two different coaches b) his decision to sign a long-term extension in spite of a conspicuously weak UFA class, and c) his selection to the all-star team after such a sluggish start

Karlsson
- while it's painfully obvious on most nights that he's the most gifted player on the team, he's being overplayed to the point that it's starting to negate his primary value... if the 2nd pairing could be trusted with just a couple more min/gp, I think it would make a big difference to the pace and effectiveness with which he could play 25min/gp

Turris
- seemed to struggle early on with the expectations of being a possible top line centre, but has found more of a comfort zone over the past month... matching Spezza's offensive output over the first half of the season has no doubt helped to quiet some of the critics, especially since he's accomplished it mostly without Ryan or a consistent performance from MacArthur

Zibanejad
- Murray called his shot in the summer that he was the player they felt would be their scoring line centre, and both MacLean and Cameron have played along... has dynamic qualities to his game, but still needs to prove that he's earning his chance to play regularly with the team's two most productive wingers

Lazar
- nobody questions the work ethic or the enthusiasm, but I'm not sure they really had a plan for Lazar this year and it shows... it was definitely the right decision to allow him to play such a prominent role at the WJC, and hopefully that restored some of his confidence after such a jigsaw of a rookie year thus far

Ceci
- the fact that he's essentially locked up a 2nd pairing defensive role on the team at age 20/21 is both impressive and telling... I'm still not entirely sure if he'll be most effective as an offensive defenceman or more of a two-way player, but like Hoffman he certainly deserves more of a look on the PP than he's gotten so far

Phillips
- an almost absurd lightning rod for criticism, he's never the defenceman that anyone seems to 'want' to be playing over 20min/gp... but until Methot is back to playing at full strength, he remains the only defenceman on the team capable of handling 20min/gp as more than an occasional experiment or cookie for good behaviour

Cowen
- has fairly quietly turned his game around and seems to have found a renewed sense of confidence, after many people were dismissing him... if he can learn to keep things simple and not try to force the play outside of his strengths, he still has the natural tools to be a key part of the team's future blueline

Legwand
- has more PP goals and PP points than any other forward on the team, in spite of being 4th in PP ice time among forwards, barely ahead of Chiasson and Zibanejad... he's also on pace for 1,000 faceoffs, which has notable value in itself... if Smith, Lazar, and Pageau are all healthy later in the season, he could become a more valuable trade deadline asset than some might expect

Anderson
- the general thinking seems to have shifted from thinking he was probably done, to thinking he's possibly the MVP of the first half of the season, and potentially worth a first round pick... truth is, he's probably most valuable exactly where he is, allowing Lehner to develop at a reasonable pace and maybe become the goaltender that many people seemed to be assume he already was

Everyone else kind of falls into the "meh" or "disappointing" category. The most interesting scenario involves Methot, though... if he gets back to full health, his fate with the team could very well depend on what kind of offers the team gets at the trade deadline.

No one please don't copy the essay on each player^

My response to it: HOFFMAN, great points. RYAN agree as well (all star game is now a joke; Ryan's going bcuz of name and 1 from every team unofficial rule). KARLSSON- great point (25:19 when he won the norris; playing 27+ every year after). TURRIS matching Spezza offensive numbers says a lot. Taking Spezza off the team is taking our 2ND best center out. ZIBANEJAD and LAZAR have that spot in front of them; ZIBANEJAD failed (offensively) in the first have but wouldn't be surprised if he's a late starter. CECI is a gamer (a junior friend that played with said). Agree with PHILLIPS, COWEN, AND LEGWAND (hope we can trade him)

I disagree about ANDERSON. He needs to be traded sooner than later. Lehner has been in the NHL for 3years+. He doesn't have a lot of games under his belt but certainly can be a #1 starting 2016 october; and I would bet he can handle 45-50GP next year

If Ottawa can't win the next two games then they have to win 4 games in a row. If they loose in one of those games, they'll have to win 5. That's exactly what it's like REALISTICALLY if this team is going to make the playoffs

Sens are looking for a top 6 forward; side note: Ryan O'Reilly is a guy being talked about in trade rumors. The Avs want a D-man return and will have many dance partners. Could see Methot + forward prospect + pick, maybe?

http://www.ottawasun.com/...looking-for-top-6-forward

As we see the Sens appear to be not good enough for the playoffs once again, let's look at the last 6 years of trades and recent activities to see what got us here.

2009
Vermette for Leclaire + 2nd rounder: Trade LOST factoring out pick which was used for Lehner, as he could have been taken with another pick
Heatley for other low achievers: NEUTRAL

2010
Runblad for Tarasenko pick: LOSS

2011
Fisher for non-NHLers to this point LOSS
Chris Kelly for 2nd rounder of Prince: LOSS
Elliot for Anderson: WIN but cost us a shot at a much better 1st pick that year
Turris for Runblad: WIN so far but Runblad is +10 with Chicago this year and originally we would have hopefully picked Tarasenko, so the sequence is still a LOSS

2013
Foligno for Methot now looks like a LOSS
Original WIN on Ben Bishop turned to LOSS in trade for nothing


If none of these trades took place, we have 3 guys leading their teams in scoring on our roster, (Foligno, Vermette and Tarasenko) as of last week with a combined 49 goals and 108 points combined, among others.

Recent signings of Greening for 3 yrs and Michalek for 3 years both at way too much money = LOSS, and with internal budget this is a big cost. Others signed also for more money than production further limit options and overall talent.

Hate to say it, but with even average trade results and signings this team would be far ahead of where it is today. There have been few wins, mostly in drafting, and hindsight shows many gems missed like everybody else on draft day.

Honestly? You hard it find to fault him? Maybe that's a somewhat fair statement since you have to do things to be faulted. I agree that the scouting and developing of some players has been good. But BM wasn't made GM 2 years ago. Brian Murray took over in the summer of 2007.

He did indeed acquire a very difficult situation. He had to resign some big names and hand out BIG contracts ($45M for Heatley, $49M for Spezza, $21M for Fisher, and $9.5M for Emery). Now whenever you hand out $124.5M that's something that shows the owner is committed to wining. The problem was that the former GM Muckler and his staff didn't do a good job of restocking the shelves to keep up the contending level.

The team had to sign players like Kovalev and LeClaire (among others). The window of winning the cup shut pretty quick and the team FINALLY commit to focusing on scouting and selling. Now, Murray did a good job of making moves, the problem period came again in 2013.

The team lost Bishop for nothing. Alfie for nothing. And traded a 1st round pick with Silfverberg for Ryan. That's a good deal but why have this guy here when you're rebuilding?

Answer: They thought the rebuild was over, throw a C on Spezza, and onto the next stage. IMO: that was premature. that was a mismanagement of assets (F U Yzerman). The team DOES have good picks and young players. Team needs to sell assets bcuz this team is not contending in 5-6 months and not in 17-18 months either. Being good is not being great. And you have to be far beyond great to return to the cup finals
- AlfieisKing

The team traded Bishop for the guy who was leading all rookies in scoring. hindsight is 20/20.

Alfie for nothing? Are you seriously proposing that this organization would have EVER traded Alfredsson?? Like, ever?

And moving a first in a weak draft (Ritchie doesn't look like much to me, even at the world juniors he was not a standout) and Silfverberg (only has 16 (frank)ing points on one of the best offenses in the entire league.) for Ryan is a steal.

As for the reason you would do that? Well, if you think you can rebuild a team with all garbage players and get high picks, who will then all develop into stars without any help from skilled veterans, I've got news for you - you haven't been paying attention to the rest of the league very well lately. (Edmonton, Buffalo, etc.)

The Islanders and Panthers are two examples of teams whose rebuilds are now turning around for the better - they both brought in veterans over the past few years to supplement and teach the kids.

Who was gonna teach our young offensive players how to play the game?? Spezza? (frank) no. Alfie? Retired. Chris Neil? god no.

So we got Ryan. One of the best moves Murray ever made IMO. Ryan loves it here and has taken on the leadership mantle like it's all he ever really wanted, playing through a broken finger.

Your problem is you're under the impression that tanking always helps a team, which is a (frank)ing stupid opinion (sorry).

Ok: 1) Stop defending the Bishop trade (anyone), it was a mistake. Truth is they should of traded Anderson at that year (don't say "playing like vezina..)
2) Fair enough. Whoever's to blame, they let an asset go without nothing - and the Sens will never make the playoffs without that type of player (they never have)
3) The min they threw Spezza the C I predicted that being a disaster (one of the few times I was right about a predictioning)
4) Murray can be blamed a lot bcuz he's in the position. I like Murray a lot. I met him. He's a great person. But 8 years at the helm is long enough. More importantly, the results are there and it's time for people to stop wanting to be right and want a championship; mark my words, and it kills me to say this; this team will not contend with the current regime. A new Gm, new coach, or new top line end talent (or all of the above) will be needed before that
- AlfieisKing

Yep, we found the guy from the third group, everyone!

As we see the Sens appear to be not good enough for the playoffs once again, let's look at the last 6 years of trades and recent activities to see what got us here.

2009
Vermette for Leclaire + 2nd rounder: Trade LOST factoring out pick which was used for Lehner, as he could have been taken with another pick
Heatley for other low achievers: NEUTRAL

2010
Runblad for Tarasenko pick: LOSS

2011
Fisher for non-NHLers to this point LOSS
Chris Kelly for 2nd rounder of Prince: LOSS
Elliot for Anderson: WIN but cost us a shot at a much better 1st pick that year
Turris for Runblad: WIN so far but Runblad is +10 with Chicago this year and originally we would have hopefully picked Tarasenko, so the sequence is still a LOSS

2013
Foligno for Methot now looks like a LOSS
Original WIN on Ben Bishop turned to LOSS in trade for nothing


If none of these trades took place, we have 3 guys leading their teams in scoring on our roster, (Foligno, Vermette and Tarasenko) as of last week with a combined 49 goals and 108 points combined, among others.

Recent signings of Greening for 3 yrs and Michalek for 3 years both at way too much money = LOSS, and with internal budget this is a big cost. Others signed also for more money than production further limit options and overall talent.

Hate to say it, but with even average trade results and signings this team would be far ahead of where it is today. There have been few wins, mostly in drafting, and hindsight shows many gems missed like everybody else on draft day.
- WillieAA

I like how you don't factor in players taken with picks when it doesn't agree with your point, but make sure to show them when it does.

Also, If you asked me today if I would rather have Vermette, Rundblad and Foligno on my team, instead of Lehner, Turris, and Methot the answer would be hell no.

The only player there worth being upset about is Tarasenko, and this was 5 years ago when nobody expected Tarasenko to be a world beater like this, and Russians were being avoided because the KHL was in it's absolute prime.

Fisher? Kelly? Pfffff. Dime a dozen players who were overrated here in Ottawa. Good (frank)ing riddance.

I'm with you on the Greening/Michalek signings, but those were needed just to reach the floor. Hopefully this is addressed soon.

I like how you don't factor in players taken with picks when it doesn't agree with your point, but make sure to show them when it does.

Also, If you asked me today if I would rather have Vermette, Rundblad and Foligno on my team, instead of Lehner, Turris, and Methot the answer would be hell no.

The only player there worth being upset about is Tarasenko, and this was 5 years ago when nobody expected Tarasenko to be a world beater like this, and Russians were being avoided because the KHL was in it's absolute prime.

Fisher? Kelly? Pfffff. Dime a dozen players who were overrated here in Ottawa. Good (frank)ing riddance.

I'm with you on the Greening/Michalek signings, but those were needed just to reach the floor. Hopefully this is addressed soon.
- TommyDeVito

Tarasenko is a non starter as Murray has not taken a Russian with his 1st round pick for a long tome. Had he kept the pick he would have taken someone else.

khawk ..... love the take.

pretty much bang on to how I feel about the team/players thus far.

I think the only way that Anderson gets traded is if he is part of a mini-blockbuster that gets the team a young 1st line centre/winger, or a replacement for Methot if he fizzles out ..... but I think either is a doubtful scenario.

Yep, we found the guy from the third group, everyone!


- TommyDeVito

I know I'm generalizing, and I hope for his sake I'm wrong, but it appears he (Alfieisking) is either really i) young and hooked on NHL2015/Fantasy Leagues, ii) stoned or in need of his meds, iii) the village idiot some town in the Ottawa Valley has lost

the later his posts got, the worster (sic) they got .... from unrealistically picking apart Murray's performance, to posts abound in double negatives 'No one please don't copy the essay on each player' and culminating with this lovely ....

'If Ottawa can't win the next two games then they have to win 4 games in a row. If they loose in one of those games, they'll have to win 5.' ..... which can only end with something like "if they loose the next ten games, they'll have to win 20 in a row".

Beauties......

Also, If you asked me today if I would rather have Vermette, Rundblad and Foligno on my team, instead of Lehner, Turris, and Methot the answer would be hell no.
- TommyDeVito

That would be a hell of a steal on Ottawa's part to orchestrate that deal.....

I like how you don't factor in players taken with picks when it doesn't agree with your point, but make sure to show them when it does.

Also, If you asked me today if I would rather have Vermette, Rundblad and Foligno on my team, instead of Lehner, Turris, and Methot the answer would be hell no.

The only player there worth being upset about is Tarasenko, and this was 5 years ago when nobody expected Tarasenko to be a world beater like this, and Russians were being avoided because the KHL was in it's absolute prime.

Fisher? Kelly? Pfffff. Dime a dozen players who were overrated here in Ottawa. Good (frank)ing riddance.

I'm with you on the Greening/Michalek signings, but those were needed just to reach the floor. Hopefully this is addressed soon.
- TommyDeVito

Sorry Charlie, you give up a 1st rounder, you are giving away an expected talent, you give away or receive a later pick, it is a crapshoot, and everyone already had a chance to pick up the players taken.

This is a team with nobody in the top 60 scorers, on pace to miss the playoffs by 16 points. It has one top line player, and no topliners on the way. It has no heart and soul players in key positions. And it has a pile of tiny, soft players that, even if it ever made it somewhere in the playoffs, would be entirely ineffective.

And yay, it has above-average goaltending, enough to keep it from getting an elite draft pick, putting a bit of lipstick on the pig. Go line by line, defense pairing by pairing and goalie for goalie versus the Blackhawks line up, and the only players the Hawks might want to sub (debatable) would be Karlsson for Keith, and Anderson for Crawford. That is the sad state of the line up that is miles from contending, as a result of mismanagement and mis-ownership. But hey, if the rookies all turn out, there's a chance for 8th place in the next couple of years. Plan the parade!!

Sorry Charlie, you give up a 1st rounder, you are giving away an expected talent, you give away or receive a later pick, it is a crapshoot, and everyone already had a chance to pick up the players taken.

This is a team with nobody in the top 60 scorers, on pace to miss the playoffs by 16 points. It has one top line player, and no topliners on the way. It has no heart and soul players in key positions. And it has a pile of tiny, soft players that, even if it ever made it somewhere in the playoffs, would be entirely ineffective.

And yay, it has above-average goaltending, enough to keep it from getting an elite draft pick, putting a bit of lipstick on the pig. Go line by line, defense pairing by pairing and goalie for goalie versus the Blackhawks line up, and the only players the Hawks might want to sub (debatable) would be Karlsson for Keith, and Anderson for Crawford. That is the sad state of the line up that is miles from contending, as a result of mismanagement and mis-ownership. But hey, if the rookies all turn out, there's a chance for 8th place in the next couple of years. Plan the parade!!
- WillieAA

You're comparing two teams in completely different states of development.

Let's play devil's advocate and compare both teams in 2007.

Chicago was at the bottom of the barrel, young players like Seabrook and Keith were being groomed to be the franchise defensemen. Byfuglien was still playing RW. Their leading scorer was Martin Havlat with 57 (in 56 GP, mind you), which falls outside of the top 60 that year..

Compare that with Ottawa- who had Heatley in the top 5, Spezza and Alfie in the top 20... made it to the Cup Final and fell short.



Such is the life and times of an NHL franchise. You reach glory, then you rebuild. We're in the latter right now.

As we see the Sens appear to be not good enough for the playoffs once again, let's look at the last 6 years of trades and recent activities to see what got us here.

2009
Vermette for Leclaire + 2nd rounder: Trade LOST factoring out pick which was used for Lehner, as he could have been taken with another pick
Heatley for other low achievers: NEUTRAL

2010
Runblad for Tarasenko pick: LOSS

2011
Fisher for non-NHLers to this point LOSS
Chris Kelly for 2nd rounder of Prince: LOSS
Elliot for Anderson: WIN but cost us a shot at a much better 1st pick that year
Turris for Runblad: WIN so far but Runblad is +10 with Chicago this year and originally we would have hopefully picked Tarasenko, so the sequence is still a LOSS

2013
Foligno for Methot now looks like a LOSS
Original WIN on Ben Bishop turned to LOSS in trade for nothing


If none of these trades took place, we have 3 guys leading their teams in scoring on our roster, (Foligno, Vermette and Tarasenko) as of last week with a combined 49 goals and 108 points combined, among others.

Recent signings of Greening for 3 yrs and Michalek for 3 years both at way too much money = LOSS, and with internal budget this is a big cost. Others signed also for more money than production further limit options and overall talent.

Hate to say it, but with even average trade results and signings this team would be far ahead of where it is today. There have been few wins, mostly in drafting, and hindsight shows many gems missed like everybody else on draft day.
- WillieAA

this entire post is ridiculous.

would you trade lehner straight up for vermette right now? not a chance in hell.

the trade wasn't rundblad for tarasenko....it was rundblad for a pick. what if the blues had selected Joey Hishon, Austin Watson, derek forbort.......we all know that murray wouldn't have taken the russian.

the fisher trade.....sens used the player they took with that pick to get ryan.

if you think chris kelly for shane prince is a loss, then i question your hockey intelligence. kelly is an average 4th liner, at the time he was an average 3rd liner, and murray got a 2nd for him. that's a great return.

you're actually using rundblad's +/- to justify that maybe that trade wasn't as good as it seemed

methot has been hurt, and foligno is having one great year (aided because injuries have him playing a role he wouldn't otherwise be playing). where do you think foligno would be on this current team...........he wouldn't be ahead of turris, he likely wouldn't be ahead of zibby, he'd be 3rd line at best. methot is EASILY the 2nd best d-man on this team. injuries happen, but it has nothing to do with the trade. ask cbj in 2-3 years, when they're paying their avg 3rd line center, how they feel about that trade.

the bishop trade is what it is. trading goalies is always a crap shoot. at the time, bishop was the 3rd best goalie in our system.

you seriously need to reevaluate how you evaluate trades. it's kind of ridiculous.